Senator Cleopas Moses is the lawmaker representing Bayelsa Central in the National Assembly. The erstwhile chairman of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in Bayelsa State is also a strong ally of the immediate past governor of the state, Senator Henry Seriake Dickson. In this interview with South-South Regional Editor, Allen Harry and Abuja Bureau Chief, Tony Tomiwa, the lawmaker speaks on a number of issues, including electoral reforms, proposed amendment to the Petroleum Industry Act (PIA) and the two years anniversary of Governor Douye Diri. Excerpts:
Senator, we would like you to assess the growth of democracy in the Fourth Republic on two major premises of internal democracy in the political parties and free and fair election as critical issues, as we head towards the 2023 general elections.
In assessing the growth of democracy in the Fourth Republic, I would say that we have evolved and we have thrived within the period. In terms of internal democracy, I will rate my party very high in that regard. I am a member of the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and one that is the product of the party, since my very last constituency was being the chairman of the PDP in Bayelsa State who handed over to the current leadership in the state now. Well, throughout my tenure there was no litigation against me and my exco. We served the party so diligently to the best of our ability and completed our statutory tenure, conducted election and handed over, no litigation and that’s not what happens in other places and perhaps in other parties. But I want to limit this interview to my party, just to let you know what’s obtainable in the party I belong to. So, talking about internal democracy, it is the party’s mechanism that’s usually at play in our party. You see, I had the privilege of conducting so many primaries – National Assembly primaries, State Assembly primaries, local government election primaries that eventually led to the electoral victory of the party in my state. And there was no time, whatsoever, that there was any litigation against any candidate that emerged from my party and so that was the institution that we upheld in Bayelsa State. And if I talk about that, I would love to mention one personality who aided us for that to have happened, and that is the distinguished Senator Henry Seriake Dickson, who, today, you can refer to as my colleague, but to me, he’s my mentor and my father, the one that God used for me to be called to serve politically. At that time, he was the governor of Bayelsa State and the leader of the party, and he gave us a free hand to practice internal democracy. And you could see that manifesting in PDP; even at the national level of our party, transiting from one national convention to the other. Yes, because people have individual rights and certain decisions can be challenged but never upturned against the general interest of the party. At this point, let me say the APC is struggling even to conduct its National Convention and as the APC national caretaker committee chairman will always say, they have issues in some states, which are big issues, as we can see. In a situation where they cannot even conduct state congresses, then internal democracy is a serious matter we should look at. Unlike the APC, we conducted state congresses and handed over and today, I am a Senator. So, internal democracy is a function of how transparent the political parties practise the selection of candidates for election. We are not there yet but we can equally say that we are not where we used to be and as we amend our electoral laws, gradually, all the negative and draconian laws are going out and that’s to tell you that the system is improving by the day, even though there are individuals and agencies that still want to truncate democracy, to the point of being selfish. What I would advise people is that if you want to make a law, don’t make a law to undermine an opponent because the law will be there; you don’t know which side of it you will be caught up with after your time. So, if you want to make a law, be open-minded, and do it in a way that tomorrow it will serve the general interest of everyone, including you. So, in addressing internal democracy in the Fourth Republic, we are not there yet, but we cannot also say we are where we used to be, though there’s room for improvement.
On the second leg of your question which is free and fair election, I would say that the platform for a free and fair election primarily depends on the independence of the umpire. I mean the freedom of the umpire, the security of the umpire, very critical and vital. And in this respect, I am talking about the Independent National Electoral Commission (INEC). INEC has conducted several elections for us within the parametres of the laws that we have. But we equally know that the law is always there for us to be amended as the system evolves. Perhaps, our laws have not got to the level of perfection; that’s why every time electoral law amendment comes up to advance our democracy. Now, if we have to adjust that, INEC, too, knows that they are not there yet because there are so many elections that have been very controversial. Specifically, where governorship elections are conducted, where number four eventually becomes number one, and this kind of outcome will certainly place a question mark on that kind of election. And therefore, I urge INEC to live up to public expectations because it is the only body that will determine all the security issues we are talking about. When the people are convinced about the leadership they have elected, when it’s responsible to it, they will listen to it. They will have hope in the people that they have sincerely voted for. But when manipulated leadership is the one in place, everyone would not want to be responsive to that leadership and that’s a major issue in democracy. However, given the situation, not all the concerns and responsibilities are on INEC alone. Politicians, too, have their role to play; for in a situation where politicians are so selfish to the point of forcing themselves on the people, it leaves so much to be desired. It is a moral issue. You know, in a situation where you want to make it by all means, that I must be, whether the people like it or not, then that can be wickedness, a kind of military mentality. So, when people are elected into offices that way, they may not be responsive to the people, knowing full well that they can have their way back to power and that’s why people get into offices and will not do the needful by bringing democratic dividends to the people for which they are elected. So, looking at the issue, as much as we have enjoyed free and fair election in some areas, we have also seen elections that are not too convenient for the generality of the people involved in that area and therefore we all need to be involved, not just INEC.
So how are the associated issues being addressed in the amended Electoral Law?
As the body charged with the responsibility of law making, basically our own responsibility here is to make judicious efforts to improve the law guiding the process, hence all the issues canvassed for are views and issues that we believe, as National Assembly, that will improve our electioneering process. Ultimately, if we get it right, electorally, meaning that responsive governments are regularly and legitimately voted into power, that will consider the interest of the people, the citizenry and the nation, then we would be making expected progress. In this regard, we are talking about a clean process, the electronic transmission of results. Here we recall that the PDP government under President Goodluck Jonathan introduced card reader, that’s electronic. Now, we’ve strengthened it and we have gone ahead even to enter into electronic transmission and if you go to check on the floor of the House, those that voted for electronic transmission, you will see that this senator was among those who voted “Yes” for electronic transmission. This is very critical. As one that has always been involved in the electioneering process, if election results are not transmitted electronically, especially in the remote areas like Southern Ijaw in Bayelsa State where I come from, yes, I am from Southern Ijaw in Koulama Ward 7, which is on the Atlantic Coast, there is an inherent issue there. From my place where I vote to Yenagoa, which is the capital city, is two hours; from my community to Oporoma, which is the local government headquarters, is one hour and in between, you pass through so many communities and so many other wards. And so, if election results are not transmitted electronically, between the ward that the result is collated to either the ward collation centre and local government collation centre, anything can happen to those results. Anybody can intercept it on the river or on the boat and mutilate the election results. Immediately the person overpowers you, he can equally rewrite results, cancel results, thereby trampling on the choice of the people. Those are things we’ve been saying ab initio, that we say must be corrected. How? Let the results from the units be transmitted electronically. Nothing better than that and that’s what are factored into the amendment and at the end of the day, everybody agreed on it and it was dusted up. Now, the second issue is direct and indirect primaries. Well, the generality of Nigerians and many of us want direct primaries but democracy is personal; that’s my personal point of view. Democracy is personal and my former governor, the late DSP Alamieyeseigha, had taught us, when he was teaching us politics at the primary level, that every politics is local, meaning that the way things happen in every environment is different from how it happens in other places. And so, you must be able to practice democracy in tandem with what is happening in your place as you evolve and improve on it. That’s why our democratic practices are different from that of America, even morally and even in our mindset as they relate to national issues, principally due to many other factors that I would not want to talk about now. But the point is that democracy is a form of government that is all-inclusive, that is what direct primary is trying to portray. What’s direct primary? Direct primary is when you want to get a candidate for an election, at the ward level, let all the people that belong to that political party that are registered members of that party come out and queue up and show their preference, meaning that it is a system that is all-inclusive. The indirect primaries as it were, and which we practise as a political party, the PDP, that I managed, is that we have elected party officers at every ward, we elected the party officers and gave them the mandate to run our party for us within a particular period of time. So, they are our elected representatives as far as the party is concerned and therefore when it is time for election, in these people that we have elected, the statutory body comes to vote. The view being that they will come with the mind of the people in a representative capacity. So, as it were, they are not voting the candidate of choice, they’re only voting the candidate of the generality of the person they represent and that’s the spirit behind it. That’s indirect primaries. You know I am a very free-thinking person and in my opinion, and because I am a product of the party, I tend to bend towards giving the political parties the right to have their own method of selecting candidates that they will present for general elections. Indeed, as a party manager, I equally know as a state chairman of a party, that I am managing the party to ultimately win elections. If you’re not conscious of that but think that because you’re a party manager, you want to go and put your brother, your sister, your girl friend, to front on the platform of your party without considering the fact that that person you’re fronting will still contest the election from the generality of the people to vote for, you stand the risk of losing in that election which translates to the point that you don’t even know why you’re a party manager. But how many people have that sense of commitment to their parties? So, my take on this as earlier stated is that the parties should have that privilege, even if not a right, to perform that responsibility of selecting their candidates for elections.
We sent the direct primaries to the President and he didn’t assent to it and if the President didn’t assent to it because it is an amendment that involves a whole other things, it wil look as if we are even going to miss out on electronic transmission. It’s like pouring the bad water away with the baby. So, if that is what will make us to lose out in other evolutionary steps that will help our democracy, then let us look inwards. Is there any other way we can legitimately present the law in such a manner that if there is any part of it that we have not been able to attain now, there is room for improvement next time, there is need to move forward? It was in the spirit of that the National Assembly reasoned that if the problem is about the selection process for a political party, let us be somehow liberal for today and in the amendment we are proposing to send back to the President, we have considered both direct, indirect and leaving for political parties to consider which pattern that suit them and in addition, consensus. I don’t see anything wrong against the three; it will still depend on the managers of the system vis-a-vis the tendency to manipulate the process. What is important though is for us as a people to have in place a political process that will ensure that the representatives are conscious that they are representing the people and not themselves.
Now, let’s go to your home state, Bayelsa. There are those who are rooting for former President Goodluck Jonathan to contest the 2023 presidential election. What’s your take on this? And where do you stand on the issue of zoning?
Well, I said in the beginning that I am a politician of conviction. I want to be very blunt. I now belong to the Senate in the National Assembly, which has opened me up to see many things that are not palatable to us as a nation. And until you get to that level, you will be looking at Nigeria from a myopic point of view. Everyday, I sit in the Senate and my colleagues from all over the country will take a point of order and begin to raise issues of national emergency and about 75 percent of such issues are security matters. And sometimes, as a young man, I cry inside of me over the level at which blood-letting, killings and kidnappings are happening in our country, a height we never ever imagined. Now, where do we go? I believe that by 2023 we should have a practising Christian that believes in God, who gives.
We need a God-fearing leadership and so today, I will always align with my party, the PDP, in the direction the party wants to go. I am a core party man; whichever way my party and the leadership of my party think is the best for the country today, I align. But I owe my leadership a responsibility of prayer and counsel that we get it right through God; that we get it right, not from the point of selfishness. We don’t allow tribe, religion, sex, colour or race to override our sense of reasoning in our advocacy and adventure in the making of the next government and that’s personal, very personal. I want a government and President that God has ordained for us at a time as now to turn around this country and stop some of these criminal and Illegal things that are happening. We need to put God first and therefore it will be limiting God to say that this individual must be a Northerner or Southerner, Christian or Muslim, as next President. And, therefore, about the question you asked about my father and my leader, former President Goodluck Jonathan, the indices are very clear – he led the country to where it is today and how he sacrificed for this country that has now been turned to a war zone by accepting defeat in that historic election. He has become an international figure that even God has recorded in heaven in His own record book. Therefore, if all indices qualify him to be President of this country and that’s the will of God for us in the country, then I will align by it. But if God does not want it that way; that you have done your bit and so that’s not the responsibility I have for you, and there’s another person I want, then, so be it. That’s my state of mind for now, but by the time we get to the thick of politics and perhaps when my party comes up, I will know what else to do.
Senator, you recently clocked one year in office. Can you take us through the journey?
The journey in the last twelve months has been very sweet and challenging. It’s been an eye opener. I cannot claim to know all by the time I came here as a young man. You know, I did my youth service in Ebonyi State; the distinguished Senator Sam Egwu was the governor of Ebonyi State and then I was a small corper. I was brought out to play football before them at an event. The distinguished Senator Obina Oba was a commissioner for sports. But today, God gave me the privilege to come to the Senate and meet the two of them in the Senate. Now, compare that time with now, and I am just mentioning these personalities because I came here and met those who are my fathers by age and by what God has used their destinies to do in this country. And today, I am their colleague. Of course, I find myself in an atmosphere of learning, atmosphere of humility and have come to see Nigeria in a closer picture and in different perspective.
Though when I look at the level of deprivations of the people from where I come from and the challenges we face regarding the political economy of oil and the ownership mentality in relation to what the system offers us, one is bound to feel very sad. You need to be from my place to be able to appreciate the level of degradation and deprivation there, a whole lot of ecological setbacks and you can feel what I am talking about. But there are some sweet moments like the Electoral law Amendment, largely so by partisan inclinations, especially between the two major parties, the APC and PDP. But after a while, the storm subsided and everybody was on the same page again. So, the Senate is actually a place to learn. I’ve learnt a lot of things and it’s a place of consensus building, a place for you to know that you cannot always have your way, the way I want, and as Niger Delta person, it is a place for me to equally know the view of the Kanuri man, where he is coming from and his perspectives. So, it has been a very good time for learning and being humble.
Within the short period you’ve been in the Red Chamber, you’ve been able to carry out different intervention programmes for members of your Senatorial District. But some people feel the choice of musical instruments for churches was wrong, knowing that in your senatorial zone there are Muslims and traditionalists.
Let me say that in terms of reporting development in my senatorial zone, it is important to know that I had a lot of election legal matters that dragged on for so long. It was one huge distraction. But the situation has improved significantly based on what we have been able to do within this relatively short period. Specifically, on your question, I think we are predominantly Christians. Bayelsa State is a Christian state, we are a praying state. We have the best Ecumenical centre. My Senatorial District, in particular, is a Christian Senatorial District. During election time, there’s no one who does not go to the church to canvass for votes. As a practising Christian, too, I know that it was God who made me a Senator for obvious reasons. God touched the hearts of my leaders, my party and the generality of the people and made me a Senator. To Him alone be the glory. So, that was why I decided to begin with God and as I told the people, it was budgeted for. So, those equipment were good, it facilitates how people relate and how they demonstrate our cultural heritage as we even see in the churches. So, those musical instruments are needed for such things. They voted for me and are equally obligated to benefit from me as a Senator. And they were shared to 50 churches across party lines and the people appreciated my gesture. Yet, this is just one of such provisions; others are coming.
You’ve entered the second year of your tenure and this year will be filled with political activities. Do you think you’ll be able to achieve anything?
Well, within the one year that I have been in office, God has negotiated and facilitated the lighting of so many communities in my Senatorial District cutting across three local governments. And I have on record Asoko community, Gbanwari community, all these communities are lighted up with solar light, functioning and the people are happy. And the report I am getting from these communities is amazing. Before now, before eight O’clock, the people would have packed up their things and go into their homes for security reasons, but now I’ve come to light up their communities and they now stay out with their small wares till 11pm and people are asking how this could be possible from a person who’s just in political office for just one year. The feedback I am getting is fantastic; so much. And the community road where I come from, the ministry people went to inspect yesterday and came back to report that it was already completed. And the community has also written to me that the road project is completed to their satisfaction. Still, youth and women empowerment is one intervention that gladdens my heart because of the reported impact in the area, and I can tell you categorically that there’s hardly any Senatorial District in the state that can beat us to the empowerment initiative to start their businesses with relevant training and starter packs. Of course, many of them have shown some level of appreciation by bringing their products for me to use as souvenirs. We are also doing a lot on the issues of cultism, drug abuse and so many things we have introduced in the Senatorial District to address some basic socio-economic and societal regeneration. And I have promised them that this year, there would be a hundred percent increase in such project deliverables. We have been able to empower about 500 youths and we hope to be able to power about 20 more communities this year.
You’re in the Senate to complete the tenure of Governor Douye Diri. Will you be seeking re-election?
I am not dodging your question but suffice to say that my political life has evolved in a way many would make mockery of it. But I cannot but say the truth. God has been the decider of my political destiny. And it plays out in time and season. I am praying, everyone desires, but the power to do anything is in the hands of God and that of my leaders. I am a very loyal person. Whatever God puts in my hands I accept. I have been praying but God has not spoken to me. When God speaks to me, I hear directly. This is an election year and I have been asking God, but He has not spoken to me yet. So, regarding the question you asked me, it is in the hands of God, it’s in the hands of the leaders that I am following.
In reviewing the administration of Governor Douye Diri in the last two years, would you say he has done well, using some indices and development parametres?
My governor has done very well and I am very proud of him. I love him and appreciate what he’s doing in Bayelsa State. In the time that he has been in the saddle, security is stable, especially politically motivated activities, inter and intra stability. APC is free doing what they are doing, even they don’t enjoy such in other states. So, in terms of security, he’s alive to the responsibility and that’s very important. In terms of development, yes, the Restoration Government of the distinguished Senator Henry Seriake Dickson built the airport, finished it, but we didn’t start to use the airport in commercial terms. But when Governor Douye Diri came, he facilitated the process and today as we are talking, I can book a flight and fly to Bayelsa State. Similarly, the former governor, now a Senator, started the three senatorial roads, and took it to the level he did and left. Since Senator Douye Diri came, he has taken these roads to greater heights even within a short period of time. And that cuts across every sector in the state. Also, in terms of appointments, he has equally done so well. So, to be very fair, it is unassailable that Douye Diri is doing very well. My spirit, my soul, support him and as I keep on telling the people, I am an extension of Douye Diri. He sat on this seat, this was the seat he used and he handed it over to me. My job is to support him; if there is anything I can do to cover certain areas, then I navigate to cover those areas as we are in it together and for the common good of Bayelsa State.
One of the key issues in your Senatorial zone is the recurring face-off between the people and oil companies operating in the area. There is one protest or the other against the oil companies over alleged neglect. Have you been able to wade into issues like that as the lawmaker representing your people?
There are so many times such issues have come up; not just now that I am a Senator. I used to be a youth leader in the volatile Ijaw oil-producing community and so I am very conversant with the issues. The issues involved are not about carrying arms, but one of intellectual battle. There have been several laws on these issue even though some of them are now obsolete, we were able to get the Petroleum Act and I think this would put to rest some of the agitations and I hope we practise it to the letter and by June/July this year, by the amendment, we hope that most of these things will be issues of the past. I have such issues in the community where I come from but all these concerns are being addressed. In the Senate, there is a standing committee for the host communities preparing the system for the Petroleum Industry Act that has just been passed that will reasonably address these issues you’re talking about.
What’s your take on the fight against illegal oil refineries also known as Kpo-fire?
Whatever is illegal is illegal, from my Christian point of view. On the point of conviction, I note that the illegal refinery issue is dangerous to health. If the oil industry is destroying our environment, what we are doing now is worse. You can see it everywhere. I am not saying this because I am now a Senator, we’ve also passed through the system. So, whatever is illegal, is illegal. Moreso, it is dangerous to our health and ecosystem. And some people will say that’s their means of livelihood, that the government has not provided any alternative means of livelihood, but has government provided such alternative in the country? So, I can understand how our people feel looking at the huge challenge they face in the calculation of the political economy oil mix in the Niger Delta, but I don’t support anything illegal because it is not good for us. I pray that people should understand my view. We need to be alive to tell our story.